Hopes flattened at Dey Krahom
January 24, 2009
The government this morning wrote the final chapter in the Dey Krahom saga.
Cambodian police fired teargas and eight people were injured on Saturday during the forced eviction of 80 families from a Phnom Penh slum, rights activists and police said. …
Witnesses said an old woman and a boy were hit by a bulldozer, while others were hurt in clashes with the workers armed with clubs and stones. …
The eviction came after the squatters rejected the company’s offer of $20,000 per family in compensation for the prime 2-hectare (4.9 acres) plot of land facing the Mekong River.
Jinja has the play by play, John Vink some arresting photos.
POSTSCRIPT: The Post has more.
CORRECTION: Change ‘Day’ to ‘Dey,’ as the latter seems the more common spelling.
UPDATE: Ka-Set has a multi-media slide show and news.
January 25, 2009 at 7:57 am
living just across day krahorm, i have witnessed how they wrecked the houses one by one. from afar i have seen how residents defended their homes, but in the end the demolition team wins.
i believe that justice should be served in some ways regarding day krahorm eviction.
January 25, 2009 at 9:17 pm
I am probably the only dissenting voice in this. These people were squatters – it was a slum, infested with criminals and prostitutes; I know for a fact that they had no title to the land. They were offered $30,000, a lot of money these people will probably never see again in their lifetimes. They wanted $4000/m2 each, for land they couldn’t even define. I don’t condone violence, and I believe the city government should have given them appropriate housing, but holding out until it was too late was clearly not good advice they had received.
January 25, 2009 at 10:39 pm
So, KJE, did you blame all those poor for what has happened to them. I don’t think those poor were offered that much money ($30,000). They wanted $4,000/m2? Is it true?
January 25, 2009 at 11:20 pm
KJE – What a ridiculous bunch of statements…
1) They were not all squatters. Many had lived at the site for years. Many also had land titles.
2) There were criminals and prostitutes but if you’d ever been to the area you would also know it was home to a huge amount of artists.
3) You know for a fact do you? Really… Fascinating, is that all of them? How long did you spend there. How many of them do you now?
4) You aren’t the only dissenting voice in this, I am sure you and 7NG could go and have a nice tea party…
Pardon me while I go and throw up somewhere…
January 26, 2009 at 3:36 am
[...] can read more about the evictions ay Dey Krahom in the following links. [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - See also Flickr page here managed by Jinjadey krahom, ] But in the meantime, read this [...]
January 26, 2009 at 9:14 am
It is okay to resist (demonstrating the rule of laws), but there is a limitation to the resistance. People must know when just to take the money and run. This is Hun Sen’s world. Justice will not be served in this matter as long as Hun Sen is alive. Hun Sen does not represent the people of Cambodian as much as he represents foreign donors. These people should know his way of life by now. More than a year ago a plan was made and it was mapped out to displace people from their homes on the outskirts of the capital. This was done just because the government wanted the land for foreign investment. There are many more examples of the government moving in and displacing those who were living on the land. If I owned any of those properties, I would sell as soon as possible, and I wouldn’t wait until it was too late. It is good to be brave, but it is also good to be smart. Don’t just fight a losing battle. Don’t put hope in front of reality. Don’t just believe the opposition parties and play stupid. Need to stay ahead of the government.
January 26, 2009 at 4:17 pm
One more dissenting voice. A very poorly informed poster previously asserts that “there were criminals and prostitutes but if you’d ever been to the area you would also know it was home to a huge amount of artists.”
Having ventured into the labyrinth several times, I must object to the term “a huge amount”. Sure, we all know about CLA’s charpei players, a scattering of other musicians and a few visual artists. But only a fool would try to paint Dey Krahom as a thriving artists’ Shangri La. The vast majority of the residents were engaged in informal micro enterprises (legal) but many were dealing drugs or into even more serious crime.
Certainly, the authorities were wrong to be so heavy-handed, but this area – some of the best real estate in the Kingdom – must be developed for the greater good. The reason why rose-tinted NGOs are not businesses is because ersatz tragedies to the strain of violins don’t add to any country’s GDP. I suggest that, if these posters are so outraged, they should invite one of these upstanding, hardworking, wrongly evicted families to come and live with them. No? Didn’t think so…
January 26, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Well, I’m glad you should refer to me as “very poorly informed”, I appreciate that. Now, I’ll take you up on this… As it happens the Dey Krahom area housed two master charpei players (yes both of CLA), but also, until recently Khy Mom (Yike), Tep Mary (Pinpeat), both Masters in their craft and Ouch Savy (considered one of the best stars of her singing skill)… Add to that over 100 students, many of whom studied at RUFA and in CLA classes.
I’d consider you the misinformed one really. Maybe you didn’t know that many artists settled around the area as it until recently it housed the old theater (knocked down for “development” with nothing going up in its place, shock there) which was one of the few places they could practice…
As for your last pathetic final sentence… I’m not even going to go there… However, as for challenges, do you want to visit one of the classes that practice in the boding this weekend to see for yourself that they aren’t all criminals and prostitutes…
No? I didn’t think so… But, if you do… I’ll happily host you just to prove you wrong…
Oh, and does “developed for the greater good” mean more shopping malls? Thats what 7NG have planned, really imaginative and I am sure will add hugely to the country’s GDP…
January 26, 2009 at 11:32 pm
1) They were not all squatters. Many had lived at the site for years. Many also had land titles.
2) There were criminals and prostitutes but if you’d ever been to the area you would also know it was home to a huge amount of artists.
3) You know for a fact do you? Really… Fascinating, is that all of them? How long did you spend there. How many of them do you now?
4) You aren’t the only dissenting voice in this, I am sure you and 7NG could go and have a nice tea party…
1)Despite many claims by those squatters and several NGOs not one of them could produce a title or verification that they had occupied the land since 1989. They were encouraged by agitating NGOs who get donations from their rabble-rousing ways of propaganda.
2) Artists? – The few who were there lived there to make a statement for their own publicity purposes.
3)My friend, I have lived in Cambodia for 20 years, some of them on and off, but I know the ins and outs more than anybody else on this board or any other for that matter, believe me.
It appears to me that you are one of those bleeding-hearts that don’t see reality for what it is. This area needed to reclaimed. They were offered $30,000, which is on the public record, and they were asking $4000/m2, ditto. For somebody who didn’t have a legal claim to the land this is a lot of money. Period. People need to compromise.
In other countries land required for the public domain is simply appropriated by the government. Owners of those pieces of land never feel adequately compensated. In Cambodia the government simply can’t compensate slum-dwellers (and don’t come citing the ‘corruption’ argument). This is left to the private sector here. It’s a tough feature on the road to development.
And as it happens, those illusory prices have evaporated anyway. There are a lot of dreamers and hypocrites in the NGO-world, and I’m not talking about Oxfam, Medicine Sans Frontieres, GTZ, etc.
Those who don’t like the policies here should go back home and help their own poor. There is plenty to do where you all came from. This country hasn’t exactly waited for you. A lot of you are spongers anyway. You should go and help in a constructive way, and not just be armchair philanthropists.
Vocally Cemented, I believe you should call yourself Mentally Cemented.
Right on, BO and mulester (a somewhat strange nick, don’t you think?)
January 26, 2009 at 11:35 pm
P. S.
Let’s wait what shakes out with the Bodeng. Again, for a fact, because I am close to people who are briefed on the situation (as the NYT likes to say), there are people who ask $50,000 for a top-floor run-down, rat- and cockroach-infested 4 by 3 m. How’s that for irrationality?
January 27, 2009 at 7:22 am
Khmers will never behave rationally and they should have taken the money and gone back to the bush.
However what right does the rich khmer have to steal land from the poor khmer.
There was and never is any open and transparent process for disposing of government land.A huge amount of money would have been split amongst the cronies.
I lost my land at kep despite having title and there is no redress.
And whoever used the phrase the greater good is out of touch with reality.
Just because a couple of hundred building workers will be employed for a few dollars a day,working in shocking conditions for a year or two does not make for a greater good.
Oh and some fat cat real estate agents take a commission off the new shophouses,thats good.
Anyway nothing will ever change in cambodia,we know that.But defending forced evictions with no compensation is criminal.
January 27, 2009 at 7:59 am
If you know so much, are so experienced, etc. Why won’t you meet me this weekend to go and have a look at these artists? Very simple? Or don’t you believe me? I’ve given concrete information and facts, you have just tired to bat it away…
So, on to your points:
1) The issue is not black and white. 1989 is twenty years ago. If you knew as much as you say you do, then you would be aware that in 1989 the Government was barely able to feed itself, let alone produce land titles!
2) This is just absolutely ridiculous. Artists settled around the Bassac Area because it was the site of the Theater and because they were encouraged to do so. To say that they did so for “publicity purposes” is a joke. Many, as I said before, have been living in the area for years.
3) I haven’t lived in Cambodia for twenty years, but in the time that I have, I have learnt that those with the most knowledge about the country tend to be the ones who claim to know the least (ie. the most humble). Someone who claims “to know more than anybody on this board or any other for that matter”makes me laugh.
So, the offer still stands, are you going to come to the Bassac and prove me wrong? I am certain you are, because you know so much and you wouldn’t want to miss the chance to prove me, someone who knows so little, wrong…
January 27, 2009 at 9:06 am
We understand your point of views. Let me ask you this! What are you going to do? Don’t just tell people the problems. What is your solution? Don’t tell me that you’re going to fight.
Start a civil war?
Think not!
January 27, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Were there any rats there?
I had a drive aorund dey grahom this morning and sure enough there is another big green fence and big piles of building materials inside.
The argument over whether the residents were artists or criminals are spuriuos.I know that the chapei player lived there and 7NG were cunning enough to give him over 50k.Did he have a land title-maybe,maybe not.
Over a year ago 7NG ran the line that the land was required for approaches to a new bridge spanning the river,good try that one.
I saw this morning just how much vacant land there is in that area-hundreds of acres I would guess.
I also had a look at the new subdivision on the riverside-new diamond city i think it is.More than 135 lots with a choice of modern houses,very nice.
They have nearly finished building a typical cambodian folly as the centrepiece.It is a huge concrete column about 60 metres high,the column is leaning over and it will have head like a swan,well a stylised swan.
What i really like about new diamond city is that all the roads are named after prestigious US centres of learning,harvard,princeton,yale etc.
It is worth stoppping and reading the sign and looking at the artists impression of the totally over the top development.
But is also has a bridge to an island,was this the bridge that 7NG were claiming they needed the the land for last year?
And why is the area called dey grahom,red land?
I think that i know but i will let others guess.
Very good letter to the post this morning explaining the land laws in cambodia-those are the laws that the poor people dont get access to.
January 27, 2009 at 11:04 pm
BO: Who was that aimed at?
January 28, 2009 at 7:51 am
Maybe aimed at some of the rats on the board….
January 28, 2009 at 7:59 am
You! Cemented and humphery and the Rats Fried Rice.
January 28, 2009 at 8:32 am
No intention of starting a civil war!
I think you can be productive (if you care about this issue) in many ways.
- Get the issue out there, talk to people about.
- Work with the communities involved and at risk communities to make sure that they are aware of the risks and have their paperwork up to date.
- In the situations where people do lose their homes, work with them to find temporary housing and a longer-term solution.
Is that a start? These are short-term solutions to deal with the problem of development and often pretty much undisguised land-grabbing (see David’s letter). The longer-term issue is working with the Cambodian government and hoping that they see that the present course will probably lead to some sort of civil unrest…
January 28, 2009 at 8:13 pm
To the dissenters, for a bunch of long term ex-pats living, you strike me as sell outs. What are you guys on the payroll? FYG, I’m not some bleeding heart liberal. The artists that lived in that community had to live in squalor, yet the ones I got to know all had great attitudes and brilliant work ethics. I have been to some of the rehearsal that Vocally Cemented offered to take you. It was EPIC stuff. If the Cambodian government gave a flying fuck about revitalizing its traditional music and fine arts (they should as it is world class) the students and teachers should haven’t had to living in such desperate conditions in the first place. Improve GDP…Give me a fucking break…
January 30, 2009 at 10:55 am
Who are we kidding here? Remember, this was not the first time, and we know that it is not going to be the last time. I don’t see any solution for these Cambodians then for them to take whatever has been offered and move. They don’t need to keep fighting a losing battle.
Look! How long does it take to convict and to hang those Nazis for their war crimes and crimes against humanity after WWII? What about how long it took to convict and to hang Saddam Hussein after the occupation of Iraq? Not that long, right? And how long did it take for the Cambodians to try to convict the Khmer Rouge leaders? You all should know the answer. The time is endless. There is no justice for the people here in Cambodia. Please, try to put our feet in Cambodian shoes so that we can understand the situation better. Some of us don’t just need a wake up call but also a reminder of where the hell we are. This is Cambodia, pal!
Don’t get me wrong. I do feel sympathy for these Cambodians but as fare as I am concerned there is nothing that any body could do. People like you and I can say any thing we want to say over and over again about having those foreign donors stop funding the Cambodian government which oppresses the people. But nothing changes. No foreign donors have stopped especially China. So we need to stop kidding ourselves.
Whether or not these people have proof of ownership of the land it doesn’t make any difference. Whether or not these people are artists or prostitutes the government just doesn’t give a damn. If Hun Sen wants these people to move they have to move. Sam Rainsy and all laws in Cambodia are not going to stop Mr. Strong Man, Hun Sen. For me, I believe that it doesn’t matter what these people are, artists or prostitutes, they are human beings and they should be treated as human beings. However, there is going to be a lot of heart breaking for Bodeng and the $5 hookers. I believe their days are numbered.
I’m not saying that Cambodia is not moving forward toward civilized and lawful society. It is. It is just not as fast as we wanted it to move. As I remember a few years back, one of my friends and his family got evacuated from his home at gun point, and they got nothing for their property. Today, people at Dai Kroham are getting $20k. It is a step forward. I wish they could get what they wanted however this is not the Hollywood ending where everybody is going to be happy. So, $20,000 is better than nothing. This is reality.
January 30, 2009 at 11:12 am
I am fully aware that this is Cambodia. You asked for suggestions on what to do, I tried to offer them. I’ve spent a fair amount of time in this community and know many of the people affected.
However, the issue isn’t black and white. This $20,000 number has been bandied about (sometimes rising to $30,000) but those who I have spoken (who live in Dey Krahom) to have no idea who to go to for this money, its not clear at all. Now 7NG are not offering this compensation (now that the land has been cleared) and we have heard that people are being offered houses out past the airport (apparently worth around $3,000-$4,000) and a small cash sum (around $200). The problem is that Dey Krahom was near to good schools and job possibilities and the new site isn’t.
I agree with you that the situation is very difficult indeed and also that some progress has been made (if anyone got $20,000 then thats fantastic because similar communities have been evicted with nothing but a tent in a muddy field). But one should remember that the progress was made because people stood their ground and demanded proper compensation…
Thanks for being civilised in your discussion and I appreciate much of what you are saying.
January 30, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Bo, I apologize for the “sell out” line. Your last post was a good one about the realities of Phnom Penh. FYG, I have had some involvment with the community too and I can vouch that VC knows his stuff. If the people being relocated are really able to receive $20,000, 7NG should make it crystal clear how to collect their cash settlement.
January 31, 2009 at 12:49 pm
No money on the table now,that is the real unfairness of the situation.
And today is the last day to accept a new shack,if there enough to go around.
I would have no problem with evictions if people had 20l compensation or a proper house to go to in a community with water and power.
But I would want to see a transparent process for acquiring the land and the money paid into a government fund that would actually benefit the community-silly I know.
Someone did the figures for boung kaek and for an expenditure of maybe 100 million the connected developer gets land worth 2 billion-not a bad deal,can I out in a tender?
Dey grahom means red land,I assume that originally this land was the beautiful red loam that one finds on the riverbanks.
The real crime in that area is the amount of empty land that could have housed people for years to come.
February 1, 2009 at 11:14 am
I am disgusted to read KJE comments at 9:17pm. These squatters, as KJE termed them, have settled in Dey Krohorm since before 2001, some even since 1979, when the land laws give title to anyone who settled on a particular plot of lands for more than five years. If these people do not have the titles then no one else has the land title, Hun Sen and Chea Sim included. The Khmer Rouge regime has annulled all property titles in Cambodia. After 1979, all the people just occupy any houses and lands they could and claimed as their own. Hun Sen occupied many houses belong to rich people from previous regimes. Chea Sim occupied Mr. Son Sann’s house who was a former govt. minister and resistance leaders. Immediately after 1979, no one has the titles. titles were only issued latter on to govt. officials and those fortunate enough to pay for them.
In fairness, the Dey Krohorm dwellers, who settled there since 1979 or before 2001, should be automatically entitled to own the lands because they cannot afford to get the titles. They are demanding $4000/m2 because that’s what the lands are worth. KJE is siding with this heartless entrepreneur named Srey Sothea because KJE himself is a plantation owner who is probably guilty of land-grabbing as well. One would wonder if he had come to Cambodia to help Cambodia or to exploit Cambodia and her people.
February 2, 2009 at 6:36 pm
“KJE himself is a plantation owner” as a foreigner? No foreigner can own land in Cambodia. Or when was this changed? So if a foreigner claims to be a land owner, there must be something “special” to circumvent the law. Or what?
February 3, 2009 at 12:33 am
Mr. Klein,
I am joint owner with my wife, as simple as that. No need to question the legality or legitimacy.
February 3, 2009 at 10:03 am
No mate,your wife is the owner and you will never change that.
However i would say that the cost of becoming a khmer citizen would have got much cheaper since the crisis hit?
Any barangs on the board khmer citizens?
I have good news on my stolen land,looks like the governor took on too many rich barngs and connected khmers.
Mr hun saen is not happy about the theft and a decsion on compensation is being discussed in phnom penh,not the bush.
Poor dey grahom people,they have no power.
February 3, 2009 at 9:42 pm
For your information, I am on the title along with my wife. Though under the land law it means she is the owner I am still entitled to half in case of distribution by divorce, death, etc. This is very similar to Florida, my U. S. home, where the spouse automatically owns half of any real estate, whether on the title or not.
February 3, 2009 at 10:30 pm
I hope that you are right,but in reality the khmers have ownership of everything.
Probably not such a bad thing really,politically it is good.
How many americans,australians and europeans whinge about them coming and taking our jobs and buying up our country?
With these new realities that perhaps globalisation isnt so flash after all-hmm,we are all in recession at the same time.
However,back to your point about florida-there is a big difference here,no rule of law.
End of story,sorry bro.
February 4, 2009 at 8:20 am
I hope KJE is not the kind to foreigner, who is using a Khmer woman to bend the rule of laws.
February 4, 2009 at 8:54 am
Remember that KJE knows more than anyone about Cambodia on this board or any other board. He’s “clearly” shown that in this debate. Oh, and there is also “no need to question the legality or legitimacy”… because he says so!
February 4, 2009 at 11:24 am
I have no further comment. It’s time to move on.
February 4, 2009 at 11:29 am
I wonder, would the bleeding hearts have such a hissy fit about this very similar case? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hereford/worcs/4081852.stm After all, these people actually own the land and, as an added bonus, are from what NGOs would call an “ethnic minority.” If not, why not?
February 4, 2009 at 11:41 am
I believe the topic is “Hopes flattened at Dey Krahom”.
DAS! When did KJE become a topic?
It’s time to move on, people.
Enough is enough!